Darren is back!

[Invested1]

Yes, there are doctors here giving opinions, but they are not HIS doctors, with the knowledge of his situation. That is all I'm saying. As I said in the beginning of my post. I do see all sides. I just say wait to see what the man himself has in mind. I seriously doubt he is making his decisions without benefit of HIS OWN doctors, and his own family. Give him a bit of space is all I say.

Andalusia--
While I certainly understand your point, I think the reason so many folks are up in arms on this thread is that *it is not all about Darren.* If something happens (fingers crossed that nothing does!), it's not just Darren who suffers, it is our entire sport at large!!

[LexInVA]

Andalusia--
While I certainly understand your point, I think the reason so many folks are up in arms on this thread is that *it is not all about Darren.* If something happens (fingers crossed that nothing does!), it's not just Darren who suffers, it is our entire sport at large!!

Exactly. The sport is under a microscope and it's under fire by both fellow equestrians from other disciplines and public opinion. If Darren hits the ground again no less than five months after his accident, it's gonna be bad news regardless of whether or not he lives to regret it.

[andalusia]

Ok. Then why have riders of his quality not joined the thread? Mr. O'Connor is a member of this community, and I wonder at his silence on this important matter? And again, I repeat one thing. Mr. C has only entered himself. This does not mean he will compete, no? He can black his entry at the last minute should he deem himself, or should his doctors deem him to be, unfit? I suspect this is his intention. To hold the place so that he keeps his options open, no? Is it not what most would do?

[flyingchange]

I think, whether he and his horses get around safe is not, at least to me, the point. Of course we all, myself included, really want him to have a safe and awesome round on each horse. However, the probability that serious problems may arise is, based on science, much, MUCH higher because of his situation right now. It is therefore completely illogical and absurd to me that his entries have been accepted.

Of course, since TPTB have shown very little regard for the use of scientific evidence to make decisions and policy changes, I guess I should not be surprised.

Even so, I am very disheartened right now that this looks like it is going to happen. It is wrong on every level. It makes all the recent focus on welfare of the horse appear to be nothing more than propoganda.

[andalusia]

No, it is not about any one person.

BUT, the sport itself, whether stadium jumping, dressage, trail -- I do not care what it is -- we are engaged in one of the most dangerous sports. It is our choice. Accidents happen just grooming, ground work. Still, a choice we make. All of us. And as much as each of us may want to own this sport, or a particular discipline, it is still up to the rider and owner of a particular horse to decide when and where. In this case, we have Darren who has had a bad result, no? But, he also is benefiting from excellent medical care, trainers, etc. Trust them to make the decisions, not internet doctors and riders. Wish the man well, cheer him and his horse.

Edited to ad: They deserve our cheers and support. Not "tsk tsk." Let us face it - if you had the power to stop him, it would have been stopped by the second page of this thread. So, let's wish him well, no?

[LexInVA]

Ok. Then why have riders of his quality not joined the thread? Mr. O'Connor is a member of this community, and I wonder at his silence on this important matter? And again, I repeat one thing. Mr. C has only entered himself. This does not mean he will compete, no? He can black his entry at the last minute should he deem himself, or should his doctors deem him to be, unfit? I suspect this is his intention. To hold the place so that he keeps his options open, no? Is it not what most would do?

I can't really put it into words without making it sound awful (which I'm not trying to) but you have you understand one thing about DOC. He cannot and will not say anything unless someone else has told him to say it for good PR. He's a public figure and a former Eventer but his position is basically that of poster boy. I like the guy and all but he's not going to jump up and say "Well I just can't allow this..it's not right!". People need to stop thinking that the USEF is some organization that has the best interests of every equestrian at heart. They care about their interests and not yours except for where your interests benefit their bottom line. You need to look to yourselves to make things better.

[gully's pilot]

....I've never seen him post here; the only time I've seen a post from "Team O'Connor" is when Karen posted her incredibly gracious acknowledgement of all the sympathy she'd received following Teddy's death.

However, I do think Mr. O'Connor needs to be involved, and, to that end, I sent him an email today expressing my opinion. If anyone else in interested in doing so, the address is oconnorequestrian@gmail.com.

[silver2]

What about the landowner or the organizing committee Andalusia- do you think they have a right to protect their own interests? Because if there is a lawsuit all those people will be named: land owner, organizers, TD, Hunt Club etc.

Sometimes you have to put the good of the whole above the rights of the individual. That is pretty much the whole point of having a regulatory body. Individual responsibility is a nice idea that has never once in all of human history worked in practice.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the sport itself, whether stadium jumping, dressage, trail -- I do not care what it is -- we are engaged in one of the most dangerous sports. It is our choice. Accidents happen
ETA all this "horses are so dangerous and we all take the same risks" hand-wringing makes me nutty. We do not all take the same risks, some of us are pretty damn smart and careful in our risk taking. Then there are the barns that have at least one person carted off in an ambulance at every competition. Those people? are idiots. And they need to be regulated when they take the idiot show on the road be it team penning or eventing or driving a car.

Please note the difference between habitual idiocy and making a mistake. Also note that I'm not talking about anyone or situation on this thread, more the idea that getting hurt is inevitable being extremely damaging to a safety program. It's not inevitable.

I run field crews pretty often and people are constantly trying to lose, kill or maim themselves under my supervision so I get a lot of practice in enforcing safety. It's not rocket science and it's not something people do on their own, even PhDs. Especially PhDs ;)

[RAyers]

Ok. Then why have riders of his quality not joined the thread? Mr. O'Connor is a member of this community, and I wonder at his silence on this important matter? And again, I repeat one thing. Mr. C has only entered himself. This does not mean he will compete, no? He can black his entry at the last minute should he deem himself, or should his doctors deem him to be, unfit? I suspect this is his intention. To hold the place so that he keeps his options open, no? Is it not what most would do?

Ah, Jill Henneberg has chimed in. As for DOC, it is not politically correct for him to chime in on this issue publicly.

Again, you are saying a person who has TBI can judge for himself that he is capable. Go back and reread the prior posts. Most folks with TBI are NOT able to make that judgement for themselves. Why? Their brain is injured.

I had a friend who had 8 mild concussions over the years. She was fine until one day she fell off without hitting her head. She got up and said she was good. On the way home from the barn she attempted to get out of her car, at 55mph. Another woman was knocked out at a water complex and was unconscious when she hit the water. I literally dove in and held her up so she did not drown. She was unable to speak for several minutes. She said she felt fine and went back to the barn. Even though a doctor CLEARED her 1 hour after the incident, she was found vomiting and delerious in the barns 2 hours later and had to be rushed to the trauma center.

Yeah, TBI patients are good judges of their condition.

Reed

[magnolia73]

This is why the USEA need standards in place. If there are no standards beyond generic "experience" requirements, then there is no way to tell someone "No". If there is nothing in place that can stop someone who's health may be at risk by competing, how can anyone expect to stop people with well, limited talent from getting in over their heads.

I believe that some people recommended that a rider be set back for 1 year in incidents of rotational falls- that would come in handy here, no? But if you lack those standards and rules, then not much can be done.

[RAyers]

.. It is our choice. Accidents happen just grooming, ground work. Still, a choice we make. All of us. And as much as each of us may want to own this sport, or a particular discipline, it is still up to the rider and owner of a particular horse to decide when and where...


And this attitude has worked well? Let's look at the accident rates and the data from the past. If you look close enough, you will see that riders making choices does not work very well for accident prevention. Hence why British Eventing has put together a VERY comprehensive rules system.

Nobody here is wishing darren ill. We all want him to be healthy and happy. However we also don't want him to do something very foolish just so he can "get back in the game." That world no longer exists and no longer impresses anyone, espceially if a person dies.

Reed

[RunForIt]

my first vocation was clinical social work...one professor made a point that I've remembered for years, in both my professional and personal lives:

Do not expect that trying to reason with someone who is thinking and acting irrationally will be a successful use of your efforts. Simply do something to stop them, keep them safe, keep others around them safe. In time, reasoning may come with reason.

[andalusia]

No, no. You misread me or perhaps my translation to english. I do understand the concerns. I do believe that the 3-d has changed in a bad way. I preferred the way it was 20 years ago. But, that is not for me to decide.

My point is let the man, his medical advisors (who are probably of the top drawer), his own trainers, decide what is best.

The entire sport has changed since my own involvement. There is little resemblance. Cross country is not cross country anymore. Dressage looks more like the ballet of humans, complete with horses on toes. I wonder at the lasting of their legs.

But that is not for me, or any of us, to say. It has evolved this way due to the need. You see, horseback riding draws little in America. No one turns on a tele in the afternoon to view horse sport, no? So, the powers that be are trying to make it more "viewable." To make it more viewable, they have to consider football and hockey. Accidents DRAW attention. So it is made more and more dangerous.

Sad and sick,yes? True? I think so.

Returning to Mr. D? Although it is his decision, I suspect it is not being made without benefit of his medical team, as well as his riding team.

If you give him a chance, he might be the very impulse needed for eventing. He might be the one to install those safety methods you so desire. Don't alienate a man before he's been given a chance to show his colours.

[andalusia]

One last comment. I suspect that Mr. DC will make the informed decision. Informed by his team of medical and riding personnel advising him on a daily (perhaps hourly) basis. Unless you are a part of that team, with intimate knowledge of his situation, why not give him the benefit of the doubt? If he goes, wish him the best (as I see all of you do). Should he black his name out, then we'll know he was not prepared for these rigors. My reactions comes from thinking of all these BB people emailing him and telling him his business. It is his business, you know?

[slc2]

the statement that ALL traumatic brain injuries ALL result in chronic disability is simply not true. things ARE better. people ARE walking away from the hospital after injuries that would have destroyed their lives years ago.

and I also know not ALL traumatic brain injuries end well. i worked at a nursing home for a long time, i saw people who were chronically, severely disabled, whose personalities and mobility had been destroyed.

and i still say - there's room for hope. that's ALL im saying. i'm not saying everyone will be exactly as they were. i'm saying there is hope.

and i'm also saying, eeryone is trying to second guess the choices of an adult who is going to make his own choices, whether people here like it or not. and i agree that many people make bad choices to deal with their medical problems, i watch that wreckage play out every day. but unless the organization prevents him from doing so, this IS darren chaccia's choice.

[SmallHerd]

There is one other point I feel the need to mention, as other's have mentioned Darren's right to make his own decisions. And I sick and tired of everyone talking about their rights. Eventing is a privilege! As eventers (and horsemen/women) we should protect our ability to continue participating in this sport, and the ULLs, who make their LIVING in this sport, should work even harder to protect that privilege. That said, it is disheartening to see an ULL, particularly in light of the recent eventing tragedies, do anything to potentially smear or damage the already 'hanging by a thread' image of our sport.

[Ajierene]

No, it is not about any one person.

BUT, the sport itself, whether stadium jumping, dressage, trail -- I do not care what it is -- we are engaged in one of the most dangerous sports. It is our choice. Accidents happen just grooming, ground work. Still, a choice we make. All of us. And as much as each of us may want to own this sport, or a particular discipline, it is still up to the rider and owner of a particular horse to decide when and where. In this case, we have Darren who has had a bad result, no? But, he also is benefiting from excellent medical care, trainers, etc. Trust them to make the decisions, not internet doctors and riders. Wish the man well, cheer him and his horse.

Edited to ad: They deserve our cheers and support. Not "tsk tsk." Let us face it - if you had the power to stop him, it would have been stopped by the second page of this thread. So, let's wish him well, no?

No, let's not just sit back and wish him well. While I would prefer to see him come back in one piece - to just sit back and say 'well, good luck' is to ignore the issue. As many others have said, this isn't just an issue of Darren competing before he is ready, this is an issue of the sport we love being scrutinized and such a public figure in the sport and on committees should also take a look at that.

This is also the issue of people standing aside and allowing someone to risk themselves and their horses. My brother may have been overprotective when I broke my ankle - he would have secured me to the couch for eight weeks if he could have - but I am grateful that he did not allow me to do anything foolish (like attempting to drive my manual transmission car).

We show Darren that we care about him by constantly saying 'this is a bad idea, really - bad idea'. Not by saying 'well, good luck then! Have fun!'


EDIT: On another note - if he has bills to pay, had to take donations for medical bills, etc. how does he have 'top drawer' medical professionals advising him on a 'daily or hourly' basis. If he has the money and/or insurance for the cream of the crop, he does not need to go back to work right away and does not need donations. If he can afford the best, or even second best, he can afford to sit out from competing for a bit longer, or just take one horse.

[RAyers]

Sure and his choice, should anything happen over the next few years, could possibly damage OUR sport even more. Using your logic, you must advocate for drunk drivers to get in their cars because it is "their choice" even if they are in an altered mental capacity. Sure they may get home with no problem. However, when they end up parked on the neighbor's patio or take out a family walking across the street (that happened here 2 years ago), then all bets are off. We ALL pay.

It may be Darren's right to ride, but then it becomes the organizer's, USEA's, USEF's, TD's right to deny him without fear or repercussion. The USEF and USEA represent US and must act as such to portect the sport.

Reed

the statement that ALL traumatic brain injuries ALL result in chronic disability is simply not true. things ARE better. people ARE walking away from the hospital after injuries that would have destroyed their lives years ago.

and I also know not ALL traumatic brain injuries end well. i worked at a nursing home for a long time, i saw people who were chronically, severely disabled, whose personalities and mobility had been destroyed.

and i still say - there's room for hope. that's ALL im saying. i'm not saying everyone will be exactly as they were. i'm saying there is hope.

and i'm also saying, eeryone is trying to second guess the choices of an adult who is going to make his own choices, whether people here like it or not. and i agree that many people make bad choices to deal with their medical problems, i watch that wreckage play out every day. but unless the organization prevents him from doing so, this IS darren chaccia's choice.

[Reynard Ridge]

A quiet "well done" from the peanut gallery to those who are so concerned and have made the effort for their concerns to be heard (Jill and Reed specifically, as well as others who have emailed governing bodies). Change comes when people who are concerned make their voices heard - many thanks to those who do the research and take a stand.

[andalusia]

I suspect strongly that the committees involved have already discussed with the doctors the abilities of the rider. Why do you all think you are the police? Give this man a break to do what he loves best.

[andalusia]

dropped

[Bamgone]

I suspect strongly that the committees involved have already discussed with the doctors the abilities of the rider. Why do you all think you are the police? Give this man a break to do what he loves best.

Why would anyone assume that has occurred?

When the person involved is head of the safety committee, isn't that a conflict of interest?

[allpurpose]

Here's an idea...perhaps David and Kevin might sit down with Darren and explain the possible ramifications to the sport at large with him riding in a recognized event, AND REQUEST THAT HE NOT RIDE at this point. Hmmmm....leadership responsibility.

If riding Windfall around a prelim course makes Darren feel better, then he should by all means set up a course at home or at someone's farm who is willing to let Darren ride - make himself happy (will pray that Windfall is no worse for wear) and not put all of us at risk.

Excellent idea. That's what friends are for. Team O'Connor, are you listening?

[poltroon]

the statement that ALL traumatic brain injuries ALL result in chronic disability is simply not true.

I'd agree. But we're talking about status at 4 months, not lifetime.

[RAyers]

I suspect strongly that the committees involved have already discussed with the doctors the abilities of the rider. Why do you all think you are the police? Give this man a break to do what he loves best.


I used to love to get drunk and drive too.

Nobody is claiming to be the police but many of us recognize a bad situation and are speaking up. I think you have a misguided understanding of communication in the USEA/USEF. There are no rules that would even allow them to discuss the rider. That is what we need though. Hence the call for new rules for riders who have major injuries and a review of rider fitness to return to action.

Reed

[caffeinated]

dropped

good choice.

[andalusia]

Are any of you his doctors? Or in contact with same?

[mademoiselle]

Andalusia,

I agree with you that by being around horses, we all accept to take risks and that we can get hurt just leading horses around.
But what everybody is saying is that eventing has had a bad couple of years and a new 'accident' would be very bad for the future of the sport.
It is also setting a bad example for the young riders.

We all say that there is no urge for him to show again, he has nothing to prove to anybody. If he wants to prove something to himself, he can do it at his farm and jump as much as he wants.

And I don't care what some of you are saying. Windfall or not, Prelim' is not a walk in the park, it's not Advanced, but you can still get hurt.

As I said earlier, you can ask some of the people posting who saw my fall begining of June. There was nothing I could have done differently. My horse, jumped clean the YEH 5 and the XC course, and managed to trip on his own feet just before fence #1 at novice level. Darren, Philipp, Kim whoever you want who have hit the dirt like I did.

The point is that it doesn't matter that you can ride prelim' with closed eyes, you're still riding horses and S... can happen.

And why the need to ride 5 horses at his 1st show ?
What is he trying to prove ?

[Jazzy Lady]

In addition to Reed, many people on this board personally know Darren. We know his determination and his drive, his ego and his confidence. We also know he doesn't often accept his limitations. Many of us are closely involved with friends and family members of his and have talked to them about it... and even some of them don't understand the risks involved in this. Perhaps the owners who are allowing it don't actually KNOW the full risks of what is involved or perhaps they don't know he's entered...

When I heard, quite a few weeks ago, that Darren was allowed to compete again, I was told it was on Windfall only, at no higher than prelim and only in NY... So things have escaladed in a few weeks.

I can understand TH standing behind Darren's decisions and offering him windfall to get going on again. As much as he is a stallion, he is incredibly well behaved and Darren knows the horse inside and out... it makes sense that his re-entry into the event world be on a horse he knows well and trusts.

[RAyers]

Are any of you his doctors? Or in contact with same?

That would be a federal violation of HIPPA.

Reed

[andalusia]

I do not pretend to know what drives the decision for him to ride now. I am only saying that the parties on this board are not privy to knowledge his doctors are privy to. Even if you are doctors.
This man is not riding out of an emotional "love my horse" idea. He is coldly approaching a competition.

Or are we all just now a branch of P? I'm not. I ride, I take a chance, I might die. But I would rather die than not ride.

[Snapdragon]

I do not pretend to know what drives the decision for him to ride now. I am only saying that the parties on this board are not privy to knowledge his doctors are privy to. Even if you are doctors.

In America, the majority of riders are female. Females are emotional. This man is not riding out of an emotional "love my horse" idea. He is coldly approaching a competition.

Or are we all just now a branch of P? I'm not. I ride, I take a chance, I might die. But I would rather die than not ride.

Andalusia, I get what you're trying to say, but I think if you had been privy to all of the problems, discussions, etc., that have been going on in eventing for the past year or so, you would change your tune.

The majority on this board may be women, but believe me, as an eventer, I don't approach my competitions thinking, "I wuv my cute little pony." I work my ass off to be the best I can be, and when it comes to competing, I'm completely focused on the task at hand, as is just about everyone else who events. The sport requires this attitude at all levels. This isn't a gender issue.

[silver pine]

Andulsia,
You are free to die any time. Free country. What you are not free do do is take your horse and our sport down with you.

Sorry. Dont want to be harsh but come on. He can run around his course at home all he likes but when he competes in a USEA event he is a reflection of all of us "eventers".
Do you see my point???

[poltroon]

What the doctors are privy to is that 4 months after a TBI severe enough to result in an extended coma, that one's judgement is still not 100% in pretty much any case.

If he were entered on one horse, I might agree with you. 5 horses suggests that it is in fact an emotional rather than rational decision.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Or are we all just now a branch of P? I'm not. I ride, I take a chance, I might die. But I would rather die than not ride.


You know...I've tried to stay out of this. But this comment struck a nerve.

I worked for a very well known horsewoman...fox hunter. She would get on the rank youngsters with no steering without a hunt cap to teach them how to jump (out in the hunt field over soild hunting coops). She would walk out on those horses in the middle of traffic expecting the traffic to stop....even the big 18 wheeler trucks (not fun when riding with her). And often said...she wanted to die while on the back of the horse.

I respected her knowledge....she was a better horsewoman than I will probably ever be....but dammit, while it was nice that she wanted to die while riding....I sure as hell did not want to be there when it happened. Unfortunately, I was there for at least one bad fall.

Darren is taking a risk. You only have to know the basics about TBI to know that. Yes it is his choice....but if he falls, and if he dies or worse, lives but is stuck on a machine....he will not be the only one who pays for it.

Yes, any additional dealth or injury in eventing is unwanted...on so many levels. And yes, at some point, I would expect Darren to be back competing full steam ahead even though with his TBI, he will be at a higher risk. But 4 months is very short and the risk he is taking, just like the risks the woman I worked for took....are VERY self centered.

[Ajierene]

I do not pretend to know what drives the decision for him to ride now. I am only saying that the parties on this board are not privy to knowledge his doctors are privy to. Even if you are doctors.

In America, the majority of riders are female. Females are emotional. This man is not riding out of an emotional "love my horse" idea. He is coldly approaching a competition.

Or are we all just now a branch of P? I'm not. I ride, I take a chance, I might die. But I would rather die than not ride.

But you are a psychologist? This is how you know 'females are emotional'? I am wondering, because I have not seen this any of the psychology classes I am taking towards my masters. It is studied, but to make a blanket statement that females are emotional is as correct as stating males are emotional and says nothing for the ability for anyone on this board or elsewhere to think logically, provided they are in sound mind.

Darren's course of action brings to mind another great in a sport - Anyone remember Dale Earnhardt's death? An accident that was minor for NASCAR. People were surprised he died. He died because he was not using a safety device that was designed to keep the head from snapping to far forward, which could cause internal decapitation, such as the HANS or Hutchins device. The use of one of these is mandatory in NASCAR now. Dale's family said he died doing what he loved and if could pick a way to go, that would have been it - do you really think it makes them feel better knowing that? Knowing that if he had taken a bit of extra safety he could still be alive?

So, are we waiting for Darren to have another catastrophic fall and die or permanently injure himself to put into effects rules that will limit how much someone can do after such an accident?

[Bamgone]

So, are we waiting for Darren to have another catastrophic fall and die or permanently injure himself to put into effects rules that will limit how much someone can do after such an accident?

It looks that way, does it not?:confused::no::(

[andalusia]

And that is up to who? I repeat: This is a well-trained athlete, with the best trainers, horses. Why not wait for their opinion.?

[Bamgone]

And that is up to who? I repeat: This is a well-trained athlete, with the best trainers, horses. Why not wait for their opinion.?

Why wait for anyone's opinion?

Why should it even be necessary when common sense dictates that riding, much less competing, a mere 4 months after a horrific fall which resulted in TBI, is unwise at best, and fool hardy at worst.

[Arcadien]

I think what andalusia may be missing is this:

what Darren plans to do next week is directly jeopardizing the continuation of the sport of eventing in America.

There are plenty of other issues, concerns, but if we want to be cold and emotional that is the hard fact that can't be got around.

Even if he rides and is fine, someone from PETA is going to chuckle and add this to their lists of valid complaints against eventers - "yeah they care so much about their horses, they don't even bother to make sure their brains are in working order before they gallop them at these killer fences"...

This point would be mooted, if he'd just wait a few more months, and then started out more cautiously.

All eventing needs is one more newsworthy crash and then news of this rash return to the sport, and we are going to be public enemy number 1 again to all the animal lovers watching the evening news. A sport can only take so much bad PR in the US before it is shut down or becomes managed by outsiders.

Arcadien

[Mozart]

Well, if I was the organizer (or their lawyer) I would want a neurologist's report stating that he is currently suffering no physical, mental or neurological impairment as a result of his prior injury before I would let him start. JMO.

[Ajierene]

Yeah, Dale was a vetran of the sport. Do you think his wife and/or his team were kicking themselves for not enforcing the extra safety measures that would have saved his life?

I balked at the safety vest, back before it was mandatory at the lower levels. My instructor told me there was no way she was letting me compete without one. I worried that it would effect my jumping. Many years later I jump just fine in it and while I have never fallen off while wearing it, I am glad I have it just in case.

So, someone needs to sit Darren down and not let him compete - or only allow him to compete say Windfall in Prelim. This is for his safety, the safety of his horses and the safety of the sport. People even in their right mind can be stubborn, which is when other people need to step in and enforce the caution that someone might not enforce themselves.

This is similar to Buck Davidson sitting Laine Ashker down and flat out telling her what her show schedule will be for the next year (as written in her blog). She appeared not happy about it - but it is the right thing to do and it is a much slower come back than Darren's. If I remember correctly, she was never in a coma or had injuries as severe as Darren's. Correct me if I am wrong.

[nature]

I see that Darren is riding "2" horses at Intermediate the following weekend at Stuart. I thought earlier in this thread, someone mentioned just one at Stuart.

[Coreene]

I had a TBI in late 1995. To this day I still take medication for vertigo. Mine was much, much less than Darren's, and I was not allowed to even get back on the quietest old bomprooof QH for six months. My doctors explained quite throughly that even a concussion before then could kill me. JMHO but I think it is very shortsighted for him to compete this soon.

[deltawave]

I would rather die than not ride. Ooooookay. Would you rather spend the rest of your life in diapers with a feeding tube than wait another 6 months to ride if you'd suffered a TBI? Would you like your loved ones to have to bear this burden for you, in the event you no longer know what it means to be a human being?

[asterix]

For those of you who think we are sticking our noses in where it doesn't belong...
no, most of us don't know him personally.
no, none of us are his doctors, or are privy to those conversations.

Yes, it's possible he is doing much, much, much better than one could imagine.

But. He CHOSE to be an international rider. He CHOSE to be a representative of our sport at international competitions, in PR campaigns, etc. He CHOSE to take a prominent role on our SAFETY committee.

He had a terrible accident which directly contributed to the crisis our sport is now embroiled in.

It IS our business to be concerned that the risk he is CHOOSING to take now could impact our sport deeply should it result in an accident.

I don't think we can really do anything about it. But to be worried? To wonder whether he is capable of making decisions as crisp as the ones he made pre-accident? This is understandable. We care about our sport, the lovely horses he rides, and his well-being. We are not just being busy bodies.

[Tazzie]

Yes, it's possible he is doing much, much, much better than one could imagine.

But. He CHOSE to be an international rider. He CHOSE to be a representative of our sport at international competitions, in PR campaigns, etc. He CHOSE to take a prominent role on our SAFETY committee.

He had a terrible accident which directly contributed to the crisis our sport is now embroiled in.

It IS our business to be concerned that the risk he is CHOOSING to take now could impact our sport deeply should it result in an accident.

I don't think we can really do anything about it. But to be worried? To wonder whether he is capable of making decisions as crisp as the ones he made pre-accident? This is understandable. We care about our sport, the lovely horses he rides, and his well-being. We are not just being busy bodies.

Thank you Asterix for putting many of my thoughts into words !!!

[RunForIt]

Ooooookay. Would you rather spend the rest of your life in diapers with a feeding tube than wait another 6 months to ride if you'd suffered a TBI? Would you like your loved ones to have to bear this burden for you, in the event you no longer know what it means to be a human being?

I'll take this in another direction...can you live with the knowledge that your riding in these events is a very public acknowledgement that at least one US Olympic event rider's personal wants come before the safety of his horses? That the sport you represent may be done far more harm by your riding at this stage in your comeback than you can possibly gain?

Darren may not care about this in the least, but he is putting out a great deal of support for the reasons people had problems with him prior to his accident.

I've had two concussions - was life-flighted into Atlanta after one of them...my judgement was impaired for many months, still suffer the effects, always will.

[Snapdragon]

Amen, Asterix.

[andalusia]

If Anky falls and breaks a leg and is back a month later, is that ok? If a Pessoa falls and is back three weeks later, is that ok?

My point is where do you draw a stick?

If a person has an accident, they are injured (of which there have been many over the years, including Pessoas [both]) riding within a short period after an injury, whose decision is it?

I am not trying to say it is ok to ride with brain injury. In fact, to the contrary. But since it is now such an international sport, one has to realise the feelings of others than Americans. I, as a Spaniard, have been schooled that I will ride with injuries and that I use medications to cover them (meds that are previously passed over by FEI, of course).

So, I am assuming that this man has passed, or thinks he will pass, the rigorous tests of FEI? I am more than likely wrong onthis as I do not understand the US system.

[RunForIt]

If Anky falls and breaks a leg and is back a month later, is that ok? If a Pessoa falls and is back three weeks later, is that ok?

My point is where do you draw a stick?

If a person has an accident, they are injured (of which there have been many over the years, including Pessoas [both]) riding within a short period after an injury, whose decision is it?

I am not trying to say it is ok to ride with brain injury. In fact, to the contrary. But since it is now such an international sport, one has to realise the feelings of others than Americans. I, as a Spaniard, have been schooled that I will ride with injuries and that I use medications to cover them (meds that are previously passed over by FEI, of course).

So, I am assuming that this man has passed, or thinks he will pass, the rigorous tests of FEI? I am more than likely wrong onthis as I do not understand the US system.

and my question - actually, to be truthful, my point is - where does the welfare of the horses fit into your line of thought? Didn't read any mention of how the horse fits into this scenario. The injured brain is a different organ than say a leg that is broken, or a broken back...if Darren's physical abilities are fine, will his brain work well enough to assure that those horses have a chance to make it safely through the event?

[andalusia]

By the way, 50 years ago I sustained an injury to my back in which it took me 18 months to learn to walk again. Before your time, of course. Guimarais, Valeria, Azevedo, Pessoaet al. Not a recognized show. A practice. But one died. So, so not think I take this with salt over shoulder.

[nature]

If Anky falls and breaks a leg and is back a month later, is that ok? If a Pessoa falls and is back three weeks later, is that ok?

I, as a Spaniard, have been schooled that I will ride with injuries and that I use medications to cover them (meds that are previously passed over by FEI, of course).

So, I am assuming that this man has passed, or thinks he will pass, the rigorous tests of FEI? I am more than likely wrong onthis as I do not understand the US system.

Darren is NOT riding in FEi levels at these shows so the FEI has no say either way.

What meds can fix a brain injury?

[andalusia]

Safety of the Horse? It falls with Safety of the Rider. To me there is no difference.

[andalusia]

I never said meds could fix a brain injury. Read my post again.

[Dispatcher]

Surely Darren has personal friends who can direct & advise him. Is everyone missing this point?

Naturally everyone involved in the sport is concerned, but for goodness sakes, he can't be making these decision all on his own. People close to him MUST be helping him. Aren't they....???

[asterix]

No, no, the FEI has nothing to do with this.
He is competing at US Eventing Association Horse Trials. The FEI rules do not apply.
The US Eventing Association has no rules, no tests, no nothing for allowing someone to compete after an injury. There are no limitations on what medications you can be on.

This is part of the reason so many of us are upset. We have been having a very serious discussion, involving the top officials in the US in eventing, about how to improve safety and decrease the rate of catastrophic accidents (Darren's being one). Many different changes have been proposed, and a few enacted. One proposal would have banned any rider suffering a rotational fall from competition for a long period of time (I do not remember how many months -- 6?). This has not been enacted, and indeed at the time many people felt it would not help prevent these sorts of accidents.

So we are upset because here we are, having a national debate about safety and accident prevention, and here comes one of our Safety Committee members and an accident victim, doing something extremely risky.

Please understand this is not about a personal choice but about a choice that involves the entire sport, because of the particular context, time, and rider.

[RunForIt]

Please understand this is not about a personal choice but about a choice that involves the entire sport, because of the particular context, time, and rider.

and above all, the horses. Horses have died recently from poor decisions by riders. Decisions come from the brain.

"We don’t have to change the sport. We have to change way the sport is being played by the players."

[andalusia]

I understand better than you think. I was party to this in another country in 1968. A rider. Dead. On Easter Sunday. It is a something we all will go through over and over. Why? Because we have chosen one of the most dangerous sports. It draws us and it makes us happy. But it is what it is. Riding horses, competitively or for pleasure, involves danger. Big animals, no? That is all I try to say. The further one goes "up" the more dangerous it is. If youtry to disinvolve the danger from the sport, you lose the sport.

[RAyers]

If Anky falls and breaks a leg and is back a month later, is that ok? If a Pessoa falls and is back three weeks later, is that ok?

Here is wher your logic breaks down. A broken leg nor does a broken back change the actual thought processes of the victim. You falsely equate those to a HEAD/BRAIN injury. That is where you draw the stick!


I am not trying to say it is ok to ride with brain injury. In fact, to the contrary. But since it is now such an international sport, one has to realise the feelings of others than Americans. I, as a Spaniard, have been schooled that I will ride with injuries and that I use medications to cover them (meds that are previously passed over by FEI, of course).

So, I am assuming that this man has passed, or thinks he will pass, the rigorous tests of FEI? I am more than likely wrong onthis as I do not understand the US system.

There are NO test one needs to pass to get back on. ONLY British Eventing has any requirements. I see NO place even in the FEI rules that require testing to be done on a rider prior to competing. Where is it? Only the medical card has to be kept up to date. That is it. So, this point is moot as well.

Your statement that you used medications to help you compete implies that Darren would do the same. Hence why you appear to say meds can be used in head injuries.

Your sport in 1968 no longer exists. You can't go back and you can't simply dismiss the events to today. British Eventing saw this about 10 years ago and the USEF sees this today.

Reed

[Ajierene]

Andalusia - I think you are not comparing and understanding what the people on this thread are concerned about.

First - it is not all his other injuries that are a point of worry, but the brain injury.

Second - it is not the riding, it is the competing. For some, it is not even the competing, it is the fact that he is competing 5 horses. There is also the fact that he has entered two horses a week later.

Third - The schooling you have been brought up with is part of what the sport is steering away from. The culture in eventing still has a lot to do with the "just get back on" mentality and we are seeing the problems that are arising from this and thinking...maybe this is not the correct philosophy to have with this sport.

Fourth - Compare Darren to Laine. Both could be considered upper level riders. Darren, however, has been active in the USEA, especially in Safety Committees. Laine just rides and is not active on any committees. If she were to go back to riding tomorrow, people would not think it was a good idea either, but for her decisions make less of an impact. When you decide to be a leader, as Darren did, you have to decide to put the good of the many above your own desires. Here the good of the many would be to avoid competing at this early stage.

There is also mention that he surrounds himself with 'yes men' and does not listen well, but I do not know him personally, so I am just going by what is posted here. This would negate, to some extent, the supposition that he has friends helping him make the correct decisions.

[saje]

Andalusia, I would trust his physicians' OK to compete ONLY if I was sure that physician truly understood what was required to compete multiple horses at speed over unforgiving fences and in the heat. If one of those physicans had evented at Training even, I would be inclined to trust their assumed clearance.

I say this as one married to a sports med doc who's job it is to tell concussed players, their coaches and their parents, that a player is unsafe to play because of a concussion. These kids will be hurting no-one but themselves if they go against orders and play anyeay. The same canNOT be said for DC.

**I want to know where the harm would be in waiting even another 3 months to compete again?**

[andalusia]

Asterix: Thank youf or saying what I mean.

[poltroon]

If Anky rides with a broken leg or even a TBI, I am not worried about her horse dying. If one of the Pessoas is show jumping with a half-healed broken leg, (as Margie Engle did in 2004 for the Olympic trials) they risk themselves, but I have no worries for the safety of the horses or for damage to show jumping as a sport. It would be taken as a one-off thing, too bad.

In eventing, there is the possibility of bad judgement causing harm to a horse, and to our whole sport. If we can't count on "personal responsibility" from a top rider, in a high profile situation, from someone who serves on the safety committees and the ICP faculty, I'm not sure how we can proceed in our sport other than with a haze of micromanaging rules.

If he had entered one horse, I would feel a lot more confident. Even if the first ride is the Training ride, it seems to me unlikely that if he has a problem that he will have the presence of mind and strength of character to recognize it and sacrifice 4 other entries for that weekend plus the two OI entries for the subsequent weekend. No, I expect his reaction would be to kick on and suck it up, until he crosses the finish line or crashes.

[andalusia]

So, you say Jose Mario G. did not exist because it happened prior to internet? Oh my, oh my. Ask anyone about that accident and they will tell you how it happened on the sport for at least six years. Never mind. I suppose, no internet/no existo.

[Ajierene]

So, you say Jose Mario G. did not exist because it happened prior to internet? Oh my, oh my. Ask anyone about that accident and they will tell you how it happened on the sport for at least six years. Never mind. I suppose, no internet/no existo.

Um....who said he did not exist?

[fergie]

the statement that ALL traumatic brain injuries ALL result in chronic disability is simply not true. things ARE better.
and i'm also saying, eeryone is trying to second guess the choices of an adult who is going to make his own choices, whether people here like it or not. and i agree that many people make bad choices to deal with their medical problems, i watch that wreckage play out every day. but unless the organization prevents him from doing so, this IS darren chaccia's choice.

I had a TBI 4 1/2 years ago. I was airlifted out of an event. I was in a coma for 3 1/2 days. I had to learn how to walk again. I lost my short term memory for a while. My depth percetion was off for 6 months. My internal thermostat is still messed up - I can't take the cold. Sometimes the only way I can get warm is with hot water. They met my husband at the hospital with a rabbi, a priest, and organ donation papers. My medical bills were over $700,000 (I have good insurance, so only about $10,000 came out of my pocket). I know what this injury is like.

I started riding again about 2 months after the accident, you know, right after I relearned how to WALK ..... I was jumping 3 1/2 feet in 3 months. I was driving again in about 7 weeks. My husband and I had the same fights over and over again because I could not remember them. I had no business jumping or driving. The doctors didn't tell me not to. My husband COULDN'T tell me not to. Why???? I wouldn't listen. I realize NOW how NQR I was then, but back then I was convinced I was fine. Still, if I hit my head today- like on a stall door - I can feel my brain swimming. It will probably always be like that. Longeing a horse is a friggin nightmare....


Let me tell you that he will not cancel his entry unless.... he is too exhausted. I slept for 16-17 hours a day the first week I came home, and I was in the hospital for a month. It is just now that I don't have to take "sleep" days to catch up. There were many other compromised fine motor skills, dexterity, that I would notice along the way too. But the stubborness is TBI, the fatigue is TBI, the thinking you are fine is TBI. Not good. I know if I fall on my head again it will be bad. It's just the nature of your brain after a TBI. Do I ride? Of course. Do I jump? You know it - adrenaline is a way of life. Did I fall off - you betcha, luckily on my side. Did I smarten up - finally. Do I compete - No, I made a promise not to, to my husband. No one should ever have to go through that nightmare twice, my husband, that is. Should Darren compete again, ever - his choice. Should he compete so SOON at that level where you are always pushing the envelope - NO WAY, not if he wants to survive another mishap! That's playing with fire. Can you convince him of that - NO WAY. (Also, my depth perception was off for 6-7 months - not good for seeing distances.)
Someone is going to have to take a hard-line approach for this TBI patient......

[silver2]

andalusia- I don't think anyone is having a hard time understanding Darren's motivations. He just wants to get back to normal and ride a lot. The motivations of those who accepted his entries and those that could prevent him competing but aren't (yet) that are in question.

People ride with recent head injuries all the time, but they usually do it on the downlow. Doing it so openly and dramatically with 5 horses in two days is making people feel like a line has been crossed.

at least that's my take.

[JER]

Surely Darren has personal friends who can direct & advise him. Is everyone missing this point?

Naturally everyone involved in the sport is concerned, but for goodness sakes, he can't be making these decision all on his own. People close to him MUST be helping him. Aren't they....???

You're touching on one of the most heartbreaking aspects of TBI.

In the months after the initial injury, it is very common for a TBI patient to become oppositional and defiant. They turn on their caregivers, assert their independence and refuse to listen to anyone's good advice. Meanwhile, they find a group of enablers who tell them what they want to hear and allow them to do whatever they please.

Please understand this is not a condemnation or judgment of TBI patients. It's just part of the recovery process. The TBI patient has impaired judgment (as well as other deficits) and is not making decisions in any rational way.

Deciding to ride 5 horses in one's return to competition is a stellar example of this.

[fergie]

You're touching on one of the most heartbreaking aspects of TBI.

In the months after the initial injury, it is very common for a TBI patient to become oppositional and defiant. They turn on their caregivers, assert their independence and refuse to listen to anyone's good advice. Meanwhile, they find a group of enablers who tell them what they want to hear and allow them to do whatever they please.

Please understand this is not a condemnation or judgment of TBI patients. It's just part of the recovery process. The TBI patient has impaired judgment (as well as other deficits) and is not making decisions in any rational way.

Deciding to ride 5 horses in one's return to competition is a stellar example of this.

I can tell you from personal experience that this is 100% true. Not only is the inury bad for the patient, but it's hell for those around him/her. My husband still shivers and feels sick when he hears a helicopter, especially a life-flight one. You see, I can't remember the accident, so I have no fear. I wanted to go back right away. A little fear would be a good thing. What is it about us riders that we HAVE to get back on the horse, no matter what??? I had a doctor who told me after I broke a collar bone, that I could ride - it was pointless to tell riders not to, but I couldn't fall off for 8 weeks. My husband about crapped himself when he heard the doc say that..... There is no point in telling the rider to stay off the horse - it's a losing battle.

[FlightCheck]

Thank you, Jer, you posted this much better than I could.

[JER]

You see, I can't remember the accident, so I have no fear. I wanted to go back right away.

This is actually a significant finding in a TBI.

The degree/presence of amnesia is a better indicator of a TBI than whether or not or how long you were unconscious.

I'm an EMT with wilderness certification. In backcountry situations, when you may not be so close to definitive/hospital care, a patient who doesn't remember his accident is always a priority for urgent evacuation -- even if he claims he's ok and presents no other deficits.

[fergie]

Here's another wierd thing with my accident. I was always someone who got lots of headaches, daily, bad headaches. After my TBI, I did not get a headache for 2 years. I still rarely get them. What's up with that?

[Gry2Yng]

Again, riding after pregnancy is different entirely from riding after a brain injury.
I rode two weeks after my daughter was born. It was a little soon, but not much, and the odds of my actually injuring myself (as opposed to just aching) or my horse were the same as if I hadn't given birth. Darren can't say that; it's not true.

I wasn't saying the physicality of it was the same. I was empathizing with the emotion of wanting to ride. I also got back in the tack 2 weeks after my daughter was born. My only point is that I understand the desire to ride and compete after being forced to sit on the sidelines.

[flyingchange]

fergie -

thank you for sharing that heart-wrenching story. your husband and you must have a very strong bond.

and it's nice to read your input again on this board.

[horsekpr]

I think everyone understands his desire to compete.Sometimes we need to put our desires on a back burner for a while .If he has an accident,which is always a possibility ,how many people are going to be proclaiming that he wasn't thinking right,and shouldn't have been allowed to compete? how does someone on the Safety committee,completely disregard their own safety and that of their horses,by pushing the envelope like this? Everyone is asking ,how to we make the sport safer? Well,here is a thought ,don't support darren in his attempt to be superman,by competeing 5 horses in one competion, 4 months after sustaining a very severe head injury.One little fall and he could easily be dead or permanently brain damaged.Is it worth that kind of risk ,to satisfy your desire to compete? Like a drunk person ,He does not have the ability to make a rational decision for himself.So we should just say ,"great.good luck,knock yourself out!"
It has been pointed out that he can make money coaching ,and teaching while he gives his brain a chance to heal.I applaude those who know him who have the courage to tell him how they feel,even though it may anger him.At least Those people have done what they could to try to stop him.if the worst happens they will not regret making the effort. It really wouldn't kill him to wait until next spring to compete.It really could kill him not to wait. he needs to step down from the safty committee,or be removed.It is ridiculas to claim to have any interest in making the sport safer when your actions show very little regard for your own safety.

[grayarabpony]

I can't believe 2 neurologists passed him to ride and that the horses' owners are allowing it. :no:

[pixietrix]

:cry: Does anyone see the irony here? Here is a very high-profile ULR, very involved in the USEA Safety Committee, ICP faculty and USEA Board member....who, in his own words, "doesn't let anyone tell him what to do"....this is your governance, guys. This is a person in a key role in the sport of eventing & given this behavior, we are to believe he has the best interests of our sport first & foremost?

After everything that happened this spring & the PR mess it caused, we are looking at even greater embarrassment and ridicule.....we can't control the safe participation in our own sport. We knowingly accept personal responsibility ( isn't that what the ULRs keep spouting on about) with each entry we make, but this ONE person has single-handedly decided that his eventing career is more important than the bigger picture here.

I have not heard back from any of the PTB that I have e-mailed about this- has anyone else? I feel so powerless....DOC isn't going to go out a limb here and there is no personal friend who can intervene- Darren has made it clear he is above intervention. What a mess.

I can hardly wait to read all about us again in the NY Times.

[Gry2Yng]

Are any of you his doctors? Or in contact with same?

Let me state upfront that this little tirade has nothing to do with DC and eventing.

Are you in contact with his doctors? Do you even know who they are? Why do you trust doctors so implicitly?

I have had a chronic illness since the age of 13 (and I am now 40). Putting my life in the hands of doctors without being a responsible patient does no good and can often hamper your health. Patients MUST be their own advocates.(Or in the case of TBI, friends and family must be his advocates.)

I live in Chicago. A city of respected medicine. Let me tell you the number of endocrinologist I have met who know less about my disease than I do. Being a medical specialist does not mean you get it right 100% of the time. In fact, it doesn't even mean you are wiser/smarter/more informed/have a higher IQ that your patient who is a banker, engineer, or equestrian. Doctors get is wrong! They forget to ask the all important question sometimes. They don't always keep up on the latest medical developments, newest drugs or procedures.

Get OFF the idea that just because some neurologist says "This man is okay to return to work." the man is okay. That neurologist probably doesn't have the SLIGHTEST idea what eventing is. What happens every time some one finds out you ride? They tell you the story about how they fell off on a trail ride when they were 12, or how they went to a rodeo once.

One of the girls I used to ride with suffered a C3 fracture and was taken to the local medical center where they applied a halo. The surgeon did not even know how to apply it. The SALES REP was in the operating room walking him through it. Fast forward several months to when she was not getting better. Trip to Northwestern. Had to remove the halo and "reinstall" because the first guy and the sales rep screwed it up.

How many people do you know who were sent home by a doctor as "fine" despite feeling NQR, only to later be diagnosed with cancer? I have more than one story.

Get over the idea that one doctor's "OK" is the key to the kingdom, for this or anything else.

[Shrapnel]

Well, I was going to keep my mouth shut, but -- I do not think Darren should be competing this soon.

I think it is to much to fast and he shouldn't be aloud to compete. End of story. :no:

[Nomoreusernames]

I admit, I didn't read all 17 pages of this, but does anyone know if the riding club sponsoring the HT will have any liability?

[gully's pilot]

As a wife of a doctor, I second the idea that doctors--even neurologists--may have no earthly idea what riding is about.

My allergist asked me if it would be okay to buy a horse that he could strap his profoundly disabled daughter to, so that she could accompany the family on hikes. He was entirely serious, and somewhat disappointed when I explained what a colossally bad idea this was.

I hope the event isn't liable, but it probably could be sued whether liable or not--and the defense costs alone could be horrendous.

[gully's pilot]

And Shrapnel, the entire point of this thread is that right now there is NO WAY Darren can be forbidden to compete. The horse trial is obligated to accept his entry.

[ideayoda]

Isnt the worst part too that TBI are cumulative???? And what if something happens??? What about the resources taken from perhaps others, or how badly the show organizers/fence judges will feel if they have to witness a fall or eliminate him???

The TD/show organizers can however stop him at any point if there are bad decisions, and hopefully everyone helps protect him.

[BaroquePony]

OK, I just opened up my copy of USDF Connection last night and I saw an ad for Purina Ultium Competition Horse Formula and Darren Chiacchia is the "Three Day Eventer" featured in the ad. Now, when I first saw the picture, I didn't realize it was Darren or that it was a Purina ad ... my first thought was that it was a photo of Malcolm McDowell in Clockwork Orange ... and I went WTF?? Then I looked closer and went .. oh.

My point being that the "look" of the photo struck me as one from a sinister film at first glance. It is a very dramatic photo, with one side of his face in the dark shadow and the other side that is lite shows a dead on shot of one of his eyes and it has a super predatory look ... it's a cool picture, but I took it for something else entirely.

It seems to fit with "extreme riding" and "no fear".

[Copper]

OK, I just opened up my copy of USDF Connection last night and I saw an ad for Purina Ultium Competition Horse Formula and Darren Chiacchia is the "Three Day Eventer" featured in the ad. Now, when I first saw the picture, I didn't realize it was Darren or that it was a Purina ad ... my first thought was that it was a photo of Malcolm McDowell in Clockwork Orange ... and I went WTF?? Then I looked closer and went .. oh.

My point being that the "look" of the photo struck me as one from a sinister film at first glance. It is a very dramatic photo, with one side of his face in the dark shadow and the other side that is lite shows a dead on shot of one of his eyes and it has a super predatory look ... it's a cool picture, but I took it for something else entirely.

It seems to fit with "extreme riding" and "no fear".

That's an old ad BP, and just weird.

[McVillesMom]

And Shrapnel, the entire point of this thread is that right now there is NO WAY Darren can be forbidden to compete. The horse trial is obligated to accept his entry.

Are they?

"GR914 Refusal of Entries
1. In addition to entries of persons suspended or expelled from the Federation, a Licensed Competition may refuse any entry of an exhibitor or the participation of any agent, trainer, rider, driver or handler who has shown an objectionable attitude or behavior at a Licensed Competition or towards its management, which management is able to substantiate, or previous unsportsmanlike behavior at a Licensed Competition which management is able to substantiate."

I think it could be argued that this is an "objectionable attitude."

[RunForIt]

I just love it that someone knows Malcom McDowell and Clockwork Orange! Perhaps this thread is making a turn for the better! (yes, in this case, Clockwork Orange can be considered BETTER!) :D :lol: :cool:

[BaroquePony]

That's an old ad BP, and just weird.

It's taken me awhile to catch up on all the goings on. Didn't know it was an old ad ... first time I'd seen it. I took some time off from mainstream riding for a few years and am in the process of catching up on things.

It sure did remind me of Malcolm McDowell though. Thought it was real weird.

Clockwork Orange is a great, albeit rather dark film.

Edit to ad: that's not saying much for the poster boy. Sorry.

[ravenclaw]

I just love it that someone knows Malcom McDowell and Clockwork Orange! Perhaps this thread is making a turn for the better! (yes, in this case, Clockwork Orange can be considered BETTER!) :D :lol: :cool:
Love Malcolm McDowell and A Clockwork Orange. Love Kubrick!

In the ad, was Darren wearing false eyelashes? :D

I'm curious to know if anyone has heard what Ralph Hill thinks about Darren's return to competition? If Ralph even knows about it, that is. I know Ralph's situation was different because of his broken leg, but he also had a TBI so it would be interesting to hear what he thinks.

[BaroquePony]

In the ad, was Darren wearing false eyelashes?

Those weren't false eyelashes, they were eyelashes drawn with an eyeliner pencil:yes:

[Dispatcher]

You're touching on one of the most heartbreaking aspects of TBI.

In the months after the initial injury, it is very common for a TBI patient to become oppositional and defiant. They turn on their caregivers, assert their independence and refuse to listen to anyone's good advice. Meanwhile, they find a group of enablers who tell them what they want to hear and allow them to do whatever they please.

Please understand this is not a condemnation or judgment of TBI patients. It's just part of the recovery process. The TBI patient has impaired judgment (as well as other deficits) and is not making decisions in any rational way.

Deciding to ride 5 horses in one's return to competition is a stellar example of this.

That IS heartbreaking.

[2ndyrgal]

The broken leg, while a serious injury for Ralph, would have been far easier to overcome than his TBI. Saw him at Rolex, I've met him several times as I ride with his niece at shows. He didn't remember my name (no reason why he should) but he did remember that "oh, yeah, you're the one with the big horse that looks like Carrick and the cute twin sister". Truth.

[Steuart Pittman]

Pleeaase let this man live his life in peace. Darren knows if Darren should compete. His horses are lucky to have even Darren at 50% capacity rather than 90% of the other riders he'll be competing against. Nobody cares more about the image of the sport than Darren, and nobody cares more about safety than Darren. Accusing him of endangering his horses and the sport as he works his way back to full recovery is ludicrous!

Get off the keyboard, go outside, take some calculated risks, and LIVE!!!

:)

[nirvana002]

Darren really can not be blamed for the decisions he makes right now, as he is not logical about the injuries he has. It would be interesting to have heard the conversations with his doctors about competing again. I can not help but think he told them he was going to compete his Olympic horse at the lower levels. Them not knowing what the lower levels are or that the lower level Darren was refering to was the same level his accident was at. It really is a stuck situation and I can not imagine I was the only one who talked or wrote to Darren asking him to reconsider his decision. He did promise that he would pull up and walk home if he felt anything not going right, but there is where I worry about his logic...will he know things aren't right? I don't know that anyone has the answers to that question including me, you, his doctors, or Darren. That being said, when do you know? I certainly would have hoped that Darren would have been 100% recovered before he started competing and because he said to me that he was working toward a complete recovery leads me to believe that even he knows he is not there yet. At this point, since none of us can really do anything about it (short of us all showing up at his farm and handcuffing him to a chair for the weekend) we can first hope someone gets through to him after that we can pray for his and his horse's saftey. I would imagine he is going to be looked after quite carefully and if anyone sees anything abnormal, he will be stopped. Maybe it should be a rule that anyone who is still under routine medical care for a head injury should not be competing. I think it is great that people are worried about him, his horse's and our sport. I don't think anyone has been ugly about it on this thread, and I just hope that if I was in Darren's shoes, people in my life would step in ... and I would hope I would listen. One person saying something is one thing, but a whole army of colleagues that you have known for years is totally different.
Jill

[RAyers]

And there are people here who at 50% capacity know more about TBI and its effects than Darren and those around him. There are folks here who at 50% capacity know more about eventing safety and risk than Darren ever will.

Let's go with your percentages as one can not ignore the FACTS. A person with TBI, is 1.5 times in MORE likely to suffer another incident. That suggests there is a 50% increase the risk that the rider (Darren in this case) will suffer a CATASTROPHIC incident. If you knew there was a 50% chance of somebody being injured or killed on XC, would you let them go out?

I said it before and I will say it again, a great rider such as Darren does not a good horseman make nor does it make them a good judge of safety or what it takes to effectively manage the sport. I, for one, am tired of folks saying that because "so-and-so is such a great rider we should leave them alone." Nobody is above reproach, especially when it comes to their and everyone's safety.

Oh, speaking of calculated risks, I work in a position that makes eventing look tame when I do some of my research. I don't need to get out and take some risks. I do that every day.

Reed

Pleeaase let this man live his life in peace. Darren knows if Darren should compete. His horses are lucky to have even Darren at 50% capacity rather than 90% of the other riders he'll be competing against. Nobody cares more about the image of the sport than Darren, and nobody cares more about safety than Darren. Accusing him of endangering his horses and the sport as he works his way back to full recovery is ludicrous!

Get off the keyboard, go outside, take some calculated risks, and LIVE!!!

:)

[nature]

That is EXACTLY what all of us here on the COTH want for Darren, a long wonderful life with horses. This is why we are expressing our concern for his decision to compete 5 horses so soon after the accident.

"His horses are lucky to have even Darren at 50% capacity rather than 90% of the other riders he'll be competing against."

Eventing is a dangerous sport, heck horses are a dangerous sport, and accidents HAPPEN even when ANY rider is at 100%, why increase the chance of an accident when a rider is at less than 100%?

"as he works his way back to full recovery is ludicrous!"

You said it yourself....he is not at full recovery so why is he taking such a risk?

Eventing is a dangerous sport, heck horses are a dangerous sport, and accidents HAPPEN even when ANY rider is at 100%, why increase the chance of an accident when a rider is at less than 100%?



Pleeaase let this man live his life in peace. Darren knows if Darren should compete. His horses are lucky to have even Darren at 50% capacity rather than 90% of the other riders he'll be competing against. Nobody cares more about the image of the sport than Darren, and nobody cares more about safety than Darren. Accusing him of endangering his horses and the sport as he works his way back to full recovery is ludicrous!

Get off the keyboard, go outside, take some calculated risks, and LIVE!!!

:)

[awm]

Darren is scheduled to ride 2 horses in the YEH division on Friday.
The YEH courses are different courses the Horse Trials courses.
On Saturday, he is scheduled to ride the 3 experienced horses in Dressage.
On Sunday, he is scheduled to ride the same 3 in Stadium, then Cross Country.
There will be all the Officials watching, as they watch all riders----

[Bamgone]

Eventing is a dangerous sport, heck horses are a dangerous sport, and accidents HAPPEN even when ANY rider is at 100%, why increase the chance of an accident when a rider is at less than 100%?

Which is what makes this risk so foolish.:no:

Hopefully Darren and his horses will come out of this unscathed.

[JER]

Pleeaase let this man live his life in peace. Darren knows if Darren should compete. His horses are lucky to have even Darren at 50% capacity rather than 90% of the other riders he'll be competing against. Nobody cares more about the image of the sport than Darren, and nobody cares more about safety than Darren. Accusing him of endangering his horses and the sport as he works his way back to full recovery is ludicrous!

Get off the keyboard, go outside, take some calculated risks, and LIVE!!!

:)

Darren is making no attempt to live his life in peace.

Darren with a TBI does not know if Darren with a TBI should compete.

His horses would be lucky to have Darren at 50% capacity. Instead, what they get is Darren with a TBI.

And so on.

Would you say the same about a racing driver operating a motor vehicle? That a drunk or otherwise impaired F1 or NASCAR driver is better and safer than 90% of the drivers who aren't drunk or mentally impaired? Yet this is a HORSE we're talking about.

And if you really believe Darren is "working his way back to full recovery", do you also think part of a good TBI rehab program is to (1) ride 5 horses at your first event and (2) start back at the level at which you were seriously injured?

[Mozart]

And the owners of these horses think it is a peachy keen idea? How about showing some backbone and saying "Darren, we love ya man, but not yet"

[Gry2Yng]

Pleeaase let this man live his life in peace. Darren knows if Darren should compete. His horses are lucky to have even Darren at 50% capacity rather than 90% of the other riders he'll be competing against. Nobody cares more about the image of the sport than Darren, and nobody cares more about safety than Darren. Accusing him of endangering his horses and the sport as he works his way back to full recovery is ludicrous!

Get off the keyboard, go outside, take some calculated risks, and LIVE!!!

:)

If he were at 50% capacity physically, I would probably agree with you. Putting a popsicle in the toaster oven is of no harm to anyone. If that same breakdown in thought process occurs on course it will be a problem.

I was very bothered by the concept of this thread initially, I am all in favor of "mind your own business" but I don't think there is any ill will here. It is a genuine concern for Darren and the sport. In fact, from what others have said, after a TBI, a person is not capable of minding their own business. As a community, we may have to step forward and help, so that a year from now, Darren can say "Wow, I really wasn't right. Thanks for stopping me."

Steuart,
When you have read thru all the posts by those who have suffered TBI's and you can tell me that you STILL believe there is no increased danger to Darren and his horses then you can tell me to go outside. Darren is an accomplished athlete who was in great physical condition at the time of his accident, that does not make him immune to brain injury and its affects. If you can give me one good reason why he should get to compete so soon after his injury, other than "He wants to and he thinks he feels fine." then I will get off my keyboard.

I believe Darren cares about the image of the sport and safety. Thus, I have to believe he is not in his right mind. What is to be gained by letting him compete? What would be lost by asking him to wait? Or even asking him to compete only one horse? In all sincerity, give me a good answer to these three questions.

Chris

[Bamgone]

And the owners of these horses think it is a peachy keen idea? How about showing some backbone and saying "Darren, we love ya man, but not yet"

No kidding.:sadsmile:

[Nomoreusernames]

Wish his family would step in.

[throwurheart]

Wish his family would step in.

From what I understand from people who know the family (so this is thirdhand, take it with a lot of salt) they have tried to get him to slow down, to no avail. I don't know this to be true, but it certainly fits what everyone here has said about the belligerent tack TBI patients often take with friends and family. They just don't realize they're not fine.

Seems to me, sorting through all this, that the only people with the power to slow him down are the horses' owners.

[Nomoreusernames]

Doesn't the law provide for some custodial interference for someone with a TBI?

[frugalannie]

I've been hesitant about posting on this thread because I'm not sure that I can add anything beyond the good words that have already been written.

But I'm going to add a personal experience not nearly as critical as Darren's, in the hopes that anyone reading this, who might ever have any kind of possible brain injury learns what some of the ramifications are.

I managed to have 5 TBIs within 18 months. Not all riding, and one was the reason we now have a rule that anyone around an operating manure spreader has to wear a hard hat (three lb. rock got kicked out and landed on my head!). Only one of these knocked me out. The rest rang my chimes: auditory and visual symptoms, disorientation. The last one was a "soft" fall before a jump. I didn't even hit my head. I caught the horse loaded her on the trailer, drove her home, put her away, denied any problem. But I had tunnel vision and ringing in my ears the whole time. No way I should have been driving or doing anything else.

My DH sent me to a neurologist in the middle of this series. Doc says: no problem with riding, you're fine. After the last fall (when DH realized I could barely hear him and had no peripheral vision) he went with me and raised the issue of repetitive head trauma with the neurologist. Doc's eyes got big, he pulled some articles up on his computer and promptly forbade me to ride at all for 6 months, and no jumping for a year.

I emphasize that the whole time I was "functional". Was I 100%? No. Could I make a responsible decision about what I could or couldn't do? No. Was I a danger to others? Regrettably, yes. Was I willing to listen to my DH about standing down? No.

And so, I worry about Darren. Jill, thanks for taking a stand. I'll be hoping and praying that he has a safe go.

[Mary in Area 1]

My husband went to the doctor yesterday (he had a TBI on June 17th--Father's Day.) She told him he could do anything that didn't hurt. She wasn't the neurologist, and the CT scan isn't for weeks. How can she tell him that?

I now have everyone on the farm on HIGH ALERT to keep him from jumping on the tractor and tedding the hay. Good grief. He is furious, says he's fine and the doc says GO, but he told me the same story about the doe with the 2 fawns TWICE in the last 15 minutes.

Steuart, you don't know how serious this is.

[Evalee Hunter]

. . . . I now have everyone on the farm on HIGH ALERT to keep him from jumping on the tractor and tedding the hay. Good grief. He is furious, says he's fine and the doc says GO, but he told me the same story about the doe with the 2 fawns TWICE in the last 15 minutes. . . .

BIG sigh. My husband says the same things over & over, tells the same stories over & over, often within minutes, & he has NEVER had a TBI to my knowledge.

[Hony]

I have heard that tunnel vision sometimes comes from doing something to your optic nerve which is not necessarily related to concussion. I can't remember the details but my doctor told me about it the last time I had a serious fall. The cat scan showed no concussion, but I was seeing spots and had tunel vision.

[Bamgone]

Steuart, you don't know how serious this is.

That much is painfully obvious.

Anyone with even a passing knowledge of a TBI individual knows how serious and long lasting the effects can be--and I am talking YEARS afterwards, not mere months.

I had a trainer who sustained a TBI several years before meeting her, and she was never the same after the accident from what people have told me.

[CoolMeadows]

I hope your husband's recovery smooths out Mary in Area I. It's so disheartening to be asked the same question or told the same story within minutes by a loved one with a TBI. My brother fought (frequently since he'd forget we'd already had this arguement) about running a marathon 3 months after his injury in spite of having huge cognitive deficits, an external fixator holding his once severed arm together and the fact that his breathing was still weak thanks to all the crushed ribs and both lungs punctured. Yeah, not a reasonable thought process there, not happening!

It's hard to not get irritated with someone with a TBI but you can't - they are not themselves and really can't help it. I have a hard time calling Darren selfish for his plans... if he was a Type A before, now he may be a Type A with no filter and needs outside influence to keep him and his horses safe. TBI patients typically don't know they're not ok and don't realize they've said the same thing twice or have thrown something away in the freezer. There are some stories going around about some of Darren's recent actions that scream NQR if true.

[Jealoushe]

WOW! So I guess they needed money for medical bills THAT bad that they can now go back to competing 5+ horses every weekend?? Hmmmmmm

Question, if the new fall rule were in place before the event where he had the fall, would he be allowed to compete?

[saje]

To be fair, I doubt that Darren, his farm, or his family are footing all the fees. The horses' owners would be paying all that I believe, as well as training fees to Darren. THat may be a part of the reason for getting back in the game so hard and fast.


I was reading his website last night, looking at the interview posted there. He says he was in a coma for over 40 days...

:|

[horsekpr]

Is it at all possible for someone to contact the owners and send them this thread? maybe they just don't realize the chances that are being taken here.I do think they are the only ones who have any power in this situation. Perhaps they have plenty of insurance on their horses and just don't mind . I feel worse for the horses than I do about darren,although I think if he were able to think rationally,he might make a different decision,but then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
My problem with relying on TD's and course officials to make the call that something is wrong,is that by the time they realize he has made a bad decision,it will be too late.The error he makes may come a crucial time ,and be fatal.With what is known about TBI's and the length of time since his injury,it is such a tremendous risk.This is such a tragic potential disaster waiting to happen.

[poopoo]

Holy crap - 40 days in a coma???? That is just nuts. He probably shouldn't even be riding yet. He'll have to go cross-country in a bubble. Clockwork orange in a bubble......

[Copper]

Holy crap - 40 days in a coma???? That is just nuts. He probably shouldn't even be riding yet. He'll have to go cross-country in a bubble. Clockwork orange in a bubble......

Interesting visual poopoo:winkgrin::eek:

[horsekpr]

He wasn't actually in a coma for 40 days.If you followed his story from the beginning,he was actually in a coma for a week ,I believe. I think by day 40 he had been released from the hospital ,and was home. The fact that he Thinks he was in a coma for 40 days makes this all the more frightening.

[ravenclaw]

Clockwork orange in a bubble......
Maybe he just can't resist a bit of the old ultra-violence? :winkgrin:

[blackwly]

I said it before and I will say it again, a great rider such as Darren does not a good horseman make nor does it make them a good judge of safety or what it takes to effectively manage the sport. I, for one, am tired of folks saying that because "so-and-so is such a great rider we should leave them alone." Nobody is above reproach, especially when it comes to their and everyone's safety.

Reed

Spot on, Reed. I, too, am tired of the idea that you can excuse people's ignorant ideas because they are "great riders." A great rider is not automatically a great leader with important insights into the sport, nor is it a person who automatically has their own horses' or students' best interests at heart.

Anyway, my concern is this. Despite all our worries, Darren will probably ride out next weekend. And he'll probably get around fine (odds being what they are...just odds.) And then a whole lot of people will say, "phew! I was worried, but it was fine. He was ready. On to other topics..." when in reality his risk is going to be relatively small but unchanged each time he gets on a horse for at least the next few months. I would say that the odds of him making a catastrophic mistake are small enough that it probably won't happen at his first event back, with all this scrutiny. So will it be at Stuart, at intermediate? Or in september, at advanced? Or in the Fair Hill CCI***? In the meantime, every time he competes he is forming an example for other riders (I'm thinking in particular of the YR's) that says doing this is ok.

[mademoiselle]

Ok, it's coming directly from his website :

Q. What horses do you have and what are your plans for them?

A. Windfall will either return to eventing or make his dressage grand prix debut this spring. He is currently in training with Robert Dover. Better I Do It is currently my only qualified horse for the Olympics. It is my intention to pursue that goal to its fullest.


Now, I understand the pressure to be back as fast as possible. Darren wants to make it to the Olympics ... Oh Boy:eek::eek::eek:

[BaroquePony]

I followed the story also, and he was out of the coma within a week or eight days accordoing to hospital releases.

Quoted from Darren's web site:

"I do not remember the accident other than having an out-of-body-experience at the time. I recall almost nothing of the 42 days I laid in a coma in the hospital. However, I do recall some conversations that went on around me while in the coma."

[Ajierene]

According to his website, he was 40 days in the hospital, not in a coma. If he said that in an interview, he is wrong. Ok, it is weird to say that someone is wrong about their own experiences, but if you look at the updates, the accident is on March 15 and by March 26, he is "Cognitively he is more alert, and able to indentify familiar faces".

http://eventrider.com/news.html

So, not sure if someone read that wrong or if he mispoke or what. If he thinks he was in a coma for 40 days, he should probably reconsider showing 5 horses in one event.

[JER]

Now, I understand the pressure to be back as fast as possible. Darren wants to make it to the Olympics ... Oh Boy:eek::eek::eek:

(We're thinking alike, mme -- I was just about to post the same DC quote.)

I'd consider it a bit of a risk for Darren to go to Hong Kong as a spectator, never mind as a competitor.

[ravenclaw]

Now, I understand the pressure to be back as fast as possible. Darren wants to make it to the Olympics ... Oh Boy:eek::eek::eek:
mademoiselle -- I saw that, too, but then I checked the Olympic Short List. Darren isn't on it at all. So...I guess that means there's no way he could ride in the Olympics. Maybe HE doesn't realize that, though?

[horsekpr]

Just checking my facts. The accident occured march 15,2008. He was released from the hospital April 15,2008.
As stated pre
viously ,he was quoted in an article on his website saying " I recall almost nothing of the 42 days I laid in a coma in the hospital".
He wasn't even in the hospital for 42 days.I remember the updates on the website saying they had a hard time convincing him that he wasn't going to ride at Rolex.
Clearly it takes a very long time to get your brain working right after such a trauma.

[fergie]

I still can't remember things from that whole first year after my TBI. If I saw a movie during that time, I can watch it again now as a new movie I've never seen. And I was only in a coma for 3 1/2 days and in the hospital for a month. He's not right, not right at all, and it's no joke. If he smacks that brain around again he could die, for real. I know.

[BaroquePony]

Well, at least he has remembered that he didn't remember. There is a glimmer of hope that a few brain synapses are firing. So what if he was off by 12 days (edit: on the hospital stay). Hope his measurement of distances is better than his measurement of time and space.


"I recall almost nothing of the 42 days I laid in a coma in the hospital".

[Ajierene]

Well, considering his hospital stay was 30 days, and his time in a coma was considerably shorter. Judging from the updates on his website, he was responding by March 20 and recognizing people by March 26. So, at maximum, he was in a coma for 10 days. It depends on the definition of coma. The definition that I always understood included no response to anything....

I pray his measurements of distance and time are much better at the show. Either that or his horses are smart enough to ignore off cues. Personally, if I was Windfall's owner, I would not want to risk my prize stallion like that.

[fergie]

When you are first recovering from a TBI you act like a drunk person. You talk to everyone, about everything, and remember nothing. You can't really walk yet, but when they put you on the treadmill you keep turning it up to the running speed. They put you in a big room and have you practice kicking a ball, and you try to kick the windows out with the ball. You crawl out of bed the first night you are conscious, past the nurses' station, just to yell "shut up" at the lady who's moaning down the hall. You don't realize that's wrong and cruel. However, you beat the staff at a game on concentration to prove to them that you have enough memory to go home. When the PT staff asks you what you want to work on today you say, "going home, because there's nothing else you can teach me here that I wouldn't learn better at home". They give you a little test and ask you to find things in a mock apartment. You think it is a real apartment and complain that you will not rifle through someone's underwear drawer. They ask you to cook something in this "apartment" and you protest because you don't cook at home anyway. You cannot find the things on the list because you can't even remember the list. However, you can beat the pants off of them in a game of concentration because that is a game and it makes sense to you to try to win. They put you on the stairs to see how you handle them, and you run up and down them, refusing to hold the railing.
Are you getting why he can't compete those horses?

[JER]

fergie, thank you for sharing your experiences. Your honest recollections illustrate post-TBI behaviour better than any medical text.

:)

[BaroquePony]

fergie, sharing your experience is invaluable to those who have never had a TBI. I had one (can ya' tell?).

I was on the critical list for a week, I think. The really bizarre part of that was that I had a badly broken jaw and a slightly fractured skull and I absolutley couldn't figure out why they wouldn't let me out of the hospital to go get back on my horse. Like I was gonna drag my IV unit behind me?

[fergie]

BaraquePony,
Didn't you try to pull that IV out? I tried to pull everything out, got the NG tube out, almost got the folie out of you know where.... what a mess I was. My husband was afraid to leave every night.
Do you ride now? Jump? Compete? Any residuals?

[deltawave]

Steuart, with all due respect, it's ludicrous to say that DC would be operating at "50% capacity" as if his muscles are at half strength or his half halts are half as effective as normal. A rider with a TBI who is "50% of normal" is not just operating at half capacity. He may be missing entire chunks of his cognitive ability, including the kind that allows him to make split-second decisions. Like the one that almost cost him his life when he was operating at 100% capacity. This is why the man has to be protected from himself. It's not like he can just put in twice as much effort and make up the deficit. Zero times two is still zero.

[Nomoreusernames]

Dear Darren's family and GVHT, DO THE RIGHT THING!! Thanks, Someone who cares enough to butt in

[rivenoak]

Dear Darren's family and GVHT, DO THE RIGHT THING!! Thanks, Someone who cares enough to butt in

Since it's a sore point with me, I'll reiterate that there is nothing GVHT can do at this point. Or could do when that entry arrived in the mail. They can only refuse entries if a competitor has been problematic with staff in the past.

As a personal example, there is one entry that I would LOVE to refuse at Coconino, but cannot under current rules. However, there IS one that I could, but wouldn't.

This is a rule change I would like to see, for a number of reasons; I think events should be able to protect themselves. There is no universe-given right to compete anywhere; other businesses have the right to refuse service. So should we.

[BaroquePony]

fergie, yes I did try to pull the IV out. I actually regained consciousness shortly after the impact, so I didn't have to go through the rest of the tube stuff. There was an army field medic on the premises at the time of the accident. He did a check for spinal injury before they moved me (they thought my neck was broken just from watching the accident). I had stopped breathing because of the shock. I avoided a trach because I came too when I started choking on my own blood, and they couldn't actually give me mouth to mouth because of the broken jaw, so they started asking me to breath "on the count", which worked.

When I came too, I had triple vision (not double) and since I had taken some emergency first aid and CPR classes before, I knew I was in s*%# shape when I was seeing in triple.

I would rather have been in a coma. The first night was extremely painful, and a couple of different times periods were the same. I passed out from pain one time. Demoral didn't do a thing, only morphine.

The doctor's wanted me to stay in the hospital for two monthes. I convinced them to let me out in two weeks. They did not want me to ride, and I convinced them that I really needed to because of the level of my conditioning. They did understand that, so they set me up with a first aid kit that I pinned to my riding clothes when I rode. If anything happened, I was supposed to clip the wires holding my jaw together and come straight back in to the hospital. Also, I had appointments with doctors twice a week for a year, so they kept an eye on things.

The doctors really did understand that with my level of fitness, it was actually uncomfortable for me not to be doing my normal routine, or at least a reduced version of it. I went for the reduced version.

Now, I was careful and I only rode my own horses that I knew would take care of me. The doctors were very concerned about it, and they put it on my medical records that I acted outside of their recommendations. But they didn't think I was totally crazy, and they actually tried to make sure it went well.

I would never have entered a competition, BUT I was not trying to stay on the Olympic Team either. I was pretty darned fit though, and when I do/did compete I am/was very competetive, but I know what reasonable limits are.

I did have some memory problems at first, and there were parts of the accident that I do not remember. I slept a lot and had some visions problems for a while. It took about a year to get back to feeling pretty right and another three to got really solid. I did ride a lot through that time period, but I waited a year to start competing, mostly because I had some reconstructive surgery to go through.

Yes, I definately still ride, but I am at least reasonable about this kind of thing.

I don't think Darren is being reasonable, and I think he is not being considerate of the sport itself, especially with the recent difficulties that it has been facing.

[Shrapnel]

And Shrapnel, the entire point of this thread is that right now there is NO WAY Darren can be forbidden to compete. The horse trial is obligated to accept his entry.

Oh I do understand the point of this thread :) -- I know there is no way that he can be forbidden to compete.

I was just saying that "I" think he shouldn't be aloud to -- even though in reality no one can stop him.

Oh how rules need to change....

[fergie]

BaroquePony,
Loved your story. I don't get to talk to many TBI patients, especially those who still ride, and I think it helps me. They thought I had spinal injury too - must have scanned me 10 times. I had just completed a three-day, and was still very fit from it, plus I was galloping racehorses too. They said my strength and fitness really saved me. I, also, choked and vomited blood everywhere - gross for everyone there. I had seizures too. I broke my arm too, and had surgery 3 weeks later with pins and plates. And why do they give Demorol anyway - all it does is make you sleepy, but doesn't take away the pain? Morphine? What was that like? I only got Dilaudid, but I must admit I loved it!
I can't believe they let you out with those instructions, etc.!!! What is wrong with us horsepeople, anyway????

The coma actually helps your brain heal better. I listened to my body and slept when I needed too. I also had terrible cravings for French onion soup right after the injury, and ate it all the time. There must be something in mushrooms that is good for the brain.

I also had to stay active and started running in races. I did 10 miles on the beach and was training for a marathon, until, I got bucked off and bruised my leg pretty badly. I know, I know, just can't stay away from the horses, including the naughty ones. I am, however, more careful now and don't just ride anything.

I think I felt solid at the 4 year marker. I feel I could compete again now, but I made that promise to my husband not to, and I stick to my word. I competed for 20 years though, and got a good taste of everything, and reached many of my goals. I do miss breezing racehorses and galloping cross country. I still school some green horses cross-country though. It is what it is, ya know?

Darren is not being reasonable, but how can he be so soon after his accident? It would shock me if he WERE being reasonable. I just knew he was going to come back too soon, and I'm not really surprised with the timing. I also know he can't hit his head again for a very long time. Does your brain still swim when your horse bumps you with his leg or something?

Anyway, I really hope these kinds of descriptions really help everyone see how serious this injury is. There really should be some special rule for TBI and competing to protect us against ourselves.

[Foxtrot's]

When my son had TBI he honestly thought he was fine - he felt his judgement was so fine he let himself out of hospital the next day.
They could not keep him in. Luckily his doctor took away his driving licence so he could not drive - HE thought he could. Years later he is really doing very well and was not in anything like the condition Darren was. Also, these injuries are cumulative...Darren should not be risking his noggin to any more trauma.

[pixietrix]

Regarding my e-mails to the Big Guys, no word from anyone but DOC, who says the USEF is holding Darren to providing support/assurance from 2 neurologists that he is in satisfactory condition to compete. Once they have that, Darren is free to do as he wishes. Yes, we need rules ( God help us, I hate that we need more rules), here is a rotational fall rider & all the rhetoroic after Rolex about dealing with these riders isn't coming into play. Funny - we now have a one fall & you go home rule, but not a nearly lethal rotational fall & you stay on the sidelines until ALL the experts agree you are not a danger to yourself, your horses and your sport rule.

20 pages of chatter on this forum shows how important this is to so many
people, can we all please remember this when the higher-ups are putting people on committees and touting their programs. Sometimes the hypocrisy is too much to take. We all need to be better involved with the USEA/USEF and show that we care about the important decisions that are made at the highest levels. Attending a Safety Summit and voicing concerns is a great start, but the PTB go back to their offices & do what they will anyway!

Please pay close attention, this is all stuff that will get swept under the rug unless everyone here is staying focused. Will the NY Times be at the GHV HT??

[DLee]

Wasn't there a 'rotational fall - suspension' rule suggested recently? I can't remember the specifics.

[highlandgreen]

I have been reading this thread on and off and finally decided to respond. I have been in many sports in my life and have had quite a few concussions, none as serious as Darrens trauma but a few.

Last June I was schooling a 4 yr old for a client and things had gone very well. Then I made the "well maybe one more jump error" and headed to a small training corner. I should have known 2 strides out when he grabbed the bit that he didn't understand the jump. He touched the top and started to rotate. When he touched down he crumpled and threw me off his right side. My he